RE: [Harp-L] San Francisco/Amateurs and pros

"Smith, Richard" <rismith@xxxxxxxxxxx> · Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:37:15 -0500

Good post, Bill.
I was at a jam last week, and was up to play with an organist, 
bass guitar, and myself and another guy playing guitars.  Well,
the other guitarist was calling the song "The Sky Is Crying".
The drummer was a beginner, and couldn't seem to get the beat 
quite right.  The other guitarist started and stopped the song
3 times, trying to coach the drummer to play the right beat.
In my opinion, this was probably embarrassing to the drummer.
Instead, why not adjust the song to the drummer?  Who says 
that "The Sky Is Crying" must always be played the same way?
I could have been very interesting and "fresh" played in a 
new beat or tempo.  However, on the other hand, the drummer
wouldn't have learned anything from the experience.  Which
way is better?

Richard J. Smith, RA
Wormleysburg, PA

-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Bill Hines
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:42 PM
To: 'Bob Maglinte'; 'Richard Hunter'; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] San Francisco/Amateurs and pros

Right, but before we get on a long train of messages here denigrating
the "blues jam hacks" and others who are trying to learn, let's add that
most "pros" probably learned NOT to do this stuff at those blues jams
(or performing poorly in their first bands!). Ya gotta start somewhere,
and the blues jams are a good place to do it once you've spent the
requisite time in the woodshed learning how to play (yeah, some folks
come out too early, screw up jams, and that's wrong too). 

I think many of these jams have become showcases where the "pros" from
various bands show up and jam with each other, rather than a place where
"hacks" can learn chops and how to perform in a group setting. It's
discouraging for the ones trying to learn, because they get the dirty
looks and other negative issues (like the "pros" don't want to play with
any "hacks" in the jam lineup). Let's keep the genre alive and support,
encourage. None of you guys were born with this knowledge, share it with
those who want to learn, be careful not to put them down in subtle ways.
Think about who took the time to help you, in a long ago and far away
galaxy...

Bill Hines

-----Original Message-----
From: harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:harp-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bob Maglinte
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:26 PM
To: Richard Hunter; harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] San Francisco/Amateurs and pros

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Hunter" <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Harp-L" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>; "Harptalk" <harptalk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: [Harp-L] San Francisco/Amateurs and pros

> Thanks to all who responded with offers of jams, gigs, and 
> companionship on my latest trip to San Francisco.  In the actual 
> event, I wound up spending my time from 8AM-11PM every day on 
> work-related stuff, so was unable to take advantage of the great 
> opportunities offered me.  I'm going back in April, and perhaps we can

> hook up then.
>
> Two of the work-related things I did in SF actually involved musical 
> performances.  I was asked to sit in with the band playing at a party 
> for my colleagues, and I was asked to organize and lead a band of my 
> colleagues playing at a company party.  The first performance was very

> professional, and the second was thoroughly amateur -- at least one of

> the players had only played once with other musicians in front of a 
> live audience.  The contrast between the two events prompted me to 
> think about a few of the things that separate pro players from 
> amateurs.  Here they are:
>
> 1)  Pros listen better.
> Pros are constantly aware of what everyone else on stage is playing. 
> They listen carefully and respond fast.  I had a hell of a time just 
> getting the amateurs to look up and pay attention to what was going on

> around them -- they were much too absorbed in what they were playing 
> themselves.
>
> 2)  Pros play less, and they don't step on the singers.
> The pros are perfectly content to play one note every minute, if that 
> happens to be the right note for the song.  The amateurs played every 
> second, no matter what else was happening.  I had to constantly remind

> the guitarists not to solo while the singers were singing, for 
> example.
>
> 3)  Pros don't play all-out all the time.
> Pros know that you can't climax all the time -- like Debussy said, 
> music has to have some boring parts for the big moments to work.  The 
> amateurs played lots of notes at top volume all the time, unless I 
> signaled frantically to bring it down.  (See item #1 above.)
>
> The main message here is this: some of the biggest things that make 
> amateurs sound like pros have very, very little to do with riffs and 
> instrumental technique.  It's all about listening, paying attention, 
> and playing just enough to make the whole band sound good. Anyone who 
> can play at all, regardless of technical accomplishment, can learn to 
> do that, and make a bigger contribution to the sound of the band.
>
> As it happened, both performances were successful.  With the amateurs,

> I made sure everyone on stage knew it was a party, not a concert, and 
> the audience appreciated the opportunity to party with their friends. 
> After all, you can't spell funk without fun.  With the pros, I made 
> sure not to screw up the very polished performance they brought to the

> stage, played my one big solo, and otherwise did my best to lock into 
> the horn section of sax and trumpet.
>
> Thanks, Richard Hunter
> hunterharp.com

Hi.
Excellent post, Richard, and from one pro to another, it is RIGHT ON THE
MONEY!!!!! It's what seperates the men from the boys, or in a somewhat
harsher way of putting things, the average Sunday blues jam hack from a
real musician. Words of wisdom from a musician that I have the utmost
respect for!!!

Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
MP3's: http://music.mp3lizard.com/barbequebob/

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